AFC West Denver Broncos

[cklaurence]

I was talking about QBs at the Dolphin page and started talking about Peyton (among others) before I realized that the Denver fans most probably wouldn't check out the Fin page. So I'm announcing to you that I did some talking about Peyton, and if you're at all interested, you can check it out. I'm wondering how you all feel about his situation as well...

[Bigmac1979]

I know this is going to sound like hating but I think Manning is injured but not as bad as they make him out to be. I like some others on the airways feel that they are giving him an out. Manning face tells the story. All interviews he's done since he was Benched he has a blank look like he knows it's over and he now knows he can't do the job any more. He's hurt but he accepts what Kubiak has done. He is a warrior and wants to play but he can't. No it's not his grip The left foot isn't his plant foot or his push off foot. He did say he wouldn't help Oz. He said he'll have his coaches in his ear so I won't be in it. Now I hear he won't even make the trip.Not sure if he means that but he's hurting right now so maybe by game time he'll change his mind. We'll see if he's at rehab this week or just stays away. If he stays away He will retire. Never expected Manning to be that way but he is human after all.

since I typed the above Manning has said he won't go to Brock but he will have to come to Peyton if he needs help. That's what I expect of a QB like Manning to be a team player

That statement is totally incorrect Hop. For a right handed QB the right foot is the plant foot but the left foot is necessary to put the body into the throws. Of course it's his push off foot. A QB throwing off of his back leg doesn't get the aim or velocity they need. It becomes an arm strength throw at that point. You NEVER want your QB to throw strictly off of his back foot.

You sure about that? Try throwing a pass with your right hand and pushing off your left foot doing it. The right foot is you plant foot and your pushoff foot. Your left foot is used for balance as you come forward. Throwing off your back foot I was under the understanding that your not throwing going forward your moving backward when you release the ball. If you watch a QB pass the ball, they use their hips like a baseball player hits with his hip a pitcher gets more out of a fast ball with his hip. I would have all my QB learn to pass the ball with their hips and not their arms by having them stand 5 yards in front of each other and throw a ball without moving their legs. then increase the yards until they get to 10 yards. Then teach them to step into the pass moving the weight from back leg to front as you release the ball it's like taking a step. Elway used his hip and he was called a strong armed QB but he put his hip into the pass always pushing off the right stepping into the pass when you let the ball go the left foot is there to help you balance and guide. If you get up and try passing the ball an air ball you will see I'm right on this.

Hop, with any throwing motion, you have to transfer your weight from your back foot (Manning's healthy foot) to your forward foot (the injured foot)...if you don't make that transfer, you are throwing off your back foot (ask Cutler how well that works)...you don't think the crippling pain of a partially torn tendon suddenly absorbing all that force generated from a throw might have something to do with the difference in his throws compared to previous weeks?

http://www.popsci.com/how-it-works/arti ... s-fastball
take a look at this article, it shows how a hard-throwing pitcher puts 175% of his weight (weight+force) on his front foot during a throw. Manning doesn't put as much force in his throws, but it's still a significant force to put on an injured foot

I just want to ask you is the ball out of your hand before the weight has completely transferred from foot to foot? Just asking

Here is a slow motion video...the weight clearly begins transferring during the motion, and the ball does not leave the hands until the back foot has completely left the ground on the follow-through
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngel-VlrgAk

[Bigmac1979]

But regardless of the mechanics, Hop, didn't you see a difference in Manning's throws yesterday, as compared to his throws against GB or even for most of the Colts game? Watching floaters die 10 feet short of their mark, it was pretty clear to me. Now, if it wasn't a physical injury that mostly accounts for the difference, what is it? I highly doubt Manning suddenly gave up on playing with maximum effort in the week between a near come-back against Indy and a division rivalry game. And if it was that, I would have to say it was pretty convenient of Kubes to announce these injuries coming into the game.

[Hoppy]

I had to get up and go outside to throw a few with my son to see . you are correct the right foot will get the brunt of your weight. I still say It wasn't the cause of his passes going every which way. The Foot wasn't his problem for the Colts game when he had a moment of his old self. But I still say when you throw a ball you do not push off your left foot when you are a right handed thrower. That was the conversation not the weight on the foot. A pitcher has his right foot on the rubber and pushes off the rubber when throwing the ball he lands on the left and as you pointed out the weight is transferred but he doesn't use the foot for more than balance.Not even sure he feel the pain when he transfers his weight. That injury is at the back end of the Achilles unless he comes down on his foot heel to toe the pressure is on his front part of his foot. at least that's where the pressure is when I was throwing the football.

[Hoppy]

Why not us Good read get hyped
http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/11/1 ... ck-why-not

[Hoppy]

Why not us Good read get hyped
http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/11/1 ... ck-why-not

[Bigmac1979]

I had to get up and go outside to throw a few with my son to see . you are correct the right foot will get the brunt of your weight. I still say It wasn't the cause of his passes going every which way. The Foot wasn't his problem for the Colts game when he had a moment of his old self. But I still say when you throw a ball you do not push off your left foot when you are a right handed thrower. That was the conversation not the weight on the foot. A pitcher has his right foot on the rubber and pushes off the rubber when throwing the ball he lands on the left and as you pointed out the weight is transferred but he doesn't use the foot for more than balance.Not even sure he feel the pain when he transfers his weight. That injury is at the back end of the Achilles unless he comes down on his foot heel to toe the pressure is on his front part of his foot. at least that's where the pressure is when I was throwing the football.

I had mild plantar fasciitis, which is much less severe than what it sounds like Manning has, and I found it hard to do any forceful physical activity. They say it is a pain tolerance issue, but when a person has severe pain, it can affect physical performance whether the person grits through it or not. I've even seen it seem to affect the shooting touch of basketball players.

If it wasn't the cause of his disastrous performance, I don't know what was. Yes, he has struggled pretty often this year, but I felt like his passes on Sunday were dramatically slower and had even more wobble than usual. We knew he was injured coming into the game and now he's been diagnosed with an even more significant partial tear of the tendon. Don't know why we need to go look for shadowy alternative explanations.

[Hoppy]

we are not going to get anywhere so lets agree to disagree that Manning is done I have a Chad Brown interview here that he is in agreement with me Brown ex NFL linebacker also says Manning is injured but he was bad before his injury. https://t.co/qbRsGau6ep This is telling. Just those of us( and I don't want to call anyone out) but those of us who are fans of the Man are taking up for him . We forget that we are fans of the team when our favorite players are at the end of their career. We don't want to give up on them. If an ex pro talks about the end and he's seen the end of one of the greatest in Jerry Rice and compares Manning to Rice. WHY do we hold on?

Omar Bolden has the same injury as Manning yet as a DB and ST player he hasn't skipped a beat. He said "it feels like walking on glass" but he continues to play at a high level https://t.co/61LwjcPFm7 He also said when asked is it a week to week thing, "it should be but he doesn't know he's not in Manning's body. But he doesn't do much changing of direction in his POSITION so it should be easier for him to get back than it was for me." I guess he means get back to 100% because he hasn't missed a game this season has he?

[Hoppy]

Get this one some media members are saying Elway set Manning up to fail this season.

[Bigmac1979]

we are not going to get anywhere so lets agree to disagree that Manning is done I have a Chad Brown interview here that he is in agreement with me Brown ex NFL linebacker also says Manning is injured but he was bad before his injury. https://t.co/qbRsGau6ep This is telling. Just those of us( and I don't want to call anyone out) but those of us who are fans of the Man are taking up for him . We forget that we are fans of the team when our favorite players are at the end of their career. We don't want to give up on them. If an ex pro talks about the end and he's seen the end of one of the greatest in Jerry Rice and compares Manning to Rice. WHY do we hold on?

Omar Bolden has the same injury as Manning yet as a DB and ST player he hasn't skipped a beat. He said "it feels like walking on glass" but he continues to play at a high level https://t.co/61LwjcPFm7 He also said when asked is it a week to week thing, "it should be but he doesn't know he's not in Manning's body. But he doesn't do much changing of direction in his POSITION so it should be easier for him to get back than it was for me." I guess he means get back to 100% because he hasn't missed a game this season has he?

This is why people get annoyed with you, Hop...you imply that those of us who have advocated for Manning to start are doing so only out of misguided emotion or loyalty...as if the only rational opinion is that Manning should have been benched from the start, or at least early in the season...Reasonable people can come to different conclusions; and I would say that prior to this week, MOST nfl experts have begrudgingly sided with sticking with Manning, as they don't know or don't trust Oz...Do you honestly think YOU are the only REAL expert, or the only one thinking rationally?
In fact, I don't know that ANY of us here have said that Manning DESERVES to start...my support for Manning is based SOLELY off of my estimation of the relative probability of a Super Bowl victory with a flawed vet (but one how plays well in spurts when healthy) or an unknown first-year starter (and first-year starters not named Brady don't win fucking Super Bowls). I have said that Oz very well could be a better regular season player, but we aren't playing for regular season victories, Hop. Likewise, Utah has sided with Manning (despite admitting that Manning has played more poorly than well) because he don't think Oz has a future as a starter (he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire when he has played).
But go ahead live in a fantasy world where you are the only one with a valid opinion or argument, I'm sure it's a comforting world to live in.

P.S. Bolden has played 10 defensive snaps this year to go along with 3 special teams tackles, 2 missed tackles, and 2 penalties...interesting standard of evidence

[Bigmac1979]

And with that, I'm out fellas...being one of the few remaining voices left in Hop's echo chamber is growing increasingly tiresome. I probably should have taken my cue when South, New Era, Drunk, and Yi stopped coming around, but there was still enough varied opinions to hold my interest for awhile. It just isn't fun anymore, and my love of debate isn't being fulfilled when the opposing side is immune to anything that doesn't simply confirm his own opinion. I've got to look for more satisfying means to get my Broncos fix.
To Hop, there is no doubt that you are a true Bronco fan, but I'm tired of the bullshit
To the rest of you, it's been a true joy to meet and converse with you about the team we all love...hopefully I'll see you somewhere else.

[IckyIPA]

And with that, I'm out fellas...being one of the few remaining voices left in Hop's echo chamber is growing increasingly tiresome. I probably should have taken my cue when South, New Era, Drunk, and Yi stopped coming around, but there was still enough varied opinions to hold my interest for awhile. It just isn't fun anymore, and my love of debate isn't being fulfilled when the opposing side is immune to anything that doesn't simply confirm his own opinion. I've got to look for more satisfying means to get my Broncos fix.
To Hop, there is no doubt that you are a true Bronco fan, but I'm tired of the bullshit
To the rest of you, it's been a true joy to meet and converse with you about the team we all love...hopefully I'll see you somewhere else.

Sorry to see you go Eron. This site isn't as user friendly(chat wise) as we all were used to when we all started hanging together. I do miss the guys that are gone too. It would be nice if we all could join up again somewhere else and have the fun we used to. If you do find another place, please pop in and let me (us) know.
Yippee Ky Yay Buckaroo !!!

[IckyIPA]

TO CK and Kicks, Please don't take my message to Big Mac the wrong way. I do appreciate this site, and am happy to hang my hat here. The reason I came here was to talk Bronco talk with the group of guys I have been associated with for the past three years. The numbers are dwindling and no new faces are coming in.The challenge here is, real time chat. Basically all you can do is post and then refresh and look for replies from time to time. Where as what we are used to, is carrying on conversations or debates, what have you, with immediate responses and continuing dialect. I will continue to post opinions and reply to posts in here, but I would rather spend my time online chatting with many other people on the subject of the NFL in general and the Broncos specifically. So if you don't see me very often, you will know why. In closing, thank you both very much for the experience I do have here. It is greatly appreciated.

[Hoppy]

we are not going to get anywhere so lets agree to disagree that Manning is done I have a Chad Brown interview here that he is in agreement with me Brown ex NFL linebacker also says Manning is injured but he was bad before his injury. https://t.co/qbRsGau6ep This is telling. Just those of us( and I don't want to call anyone out) but those of us who are fans of the Man are taking up for him . We forget that we are fans of the team when our favorite players are at the end of their career. We don't want to give up on them. If an ex pro talks about the end and he's seen the end of one of the greatest in Jerry Rice and compares Manning to Rice. WHY do we hold on?

Omar Bolden has the same injury as Manning yet as a DB and ST player he hasn't skipped a beat. He said "it feels like walking on glass" but he continues to play at a high level https://t.co/61LwjcPFm7 He also said when asked is it a week to week thing, "it should be but he doesn't know he's not in Manning's body. But he doesn't do much changing of direction in his POSITION so it should be easier for him to get back than it was for me." I guess he means get back to 100% because he hasn't missed a game this season has he?

This is why people get annoyed with you, Hop...you imply that those of us who have advocated for Manning to start are doing so only out of misguided emotion or loyalty...as if the only rational opinion is that Manning should have been benched from the start, or at least early in the season...Reasonable people can come to different conclusions; and I would say that prior to this week, MOST nfl experts have begrudgingly sided with sticking with Manning, as they don't know or don't trust Oz...Do you honestly think YOU are the only REAL expert, or the only one thinking rationally?
In fact, I don't know that ANY of us here have said that Manning DESERVES to start...my support for Manning is based SOLELY off of my estimation of the relative probability of a Super Bowl victory with a flawed vet (but one how plays well in spurts when healthy) or an unknown first-year starter (and first-year starters not named Brady don't win fucking Super Bowls). I have said that Oz very well could be a better regular season player, but we aren't playing for regular season victories, Hop. Likewise, Utah has sided with Manning (despite admitting that Manning has played more poorly than well) because he don't think Oz has a future as a starter (he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire when he has played).
But go ahead live in a fantasy world where you are the only one with a valid opinion or argument, I'm sure it's a comforting world to live in.

P.S. Bolden has played 10 defensive snaps this year to go along with 3 special teams tackles, 2 missed tackles, and 2 penalties...interesting standard of evidence

Wow just like that I'm the bad guy. I said I wasn't calling anyone out but you feel I was downing your expertize. Going all girlly on me sorry don't quit because you feel you can't win me over. You're not the first to run away while debating. Now that I've said all that bull I will not take the blame for all those who want me to follow their lead and I don't. The problem with most people like me is I'm an old dog and I've been a fighter all my life not about to become something I'm not to please you or anyone. I respect any man who has the balls to stand his grown. But for you to leave because I Don't agree or because I said something to make you cry is weak. What's the problem Chad Brown agreeing with me? My opinion is just that, yours is yours we're both entitled. But I will stand down and you can have the playground since I'm the one running everyone away. Man up young man when you get older and set in your ways you will see. Have a great life and god bless

[OnlyInUtah]

Thanks for the good work or implosion depending if one is watching or participating fellas, havent had this many laughs since ummm, last Sunday. Looking forward to more of the same this coming Sunday.

Icky, come out and play, one thing we can ALL agree on is that sorry EXcuse that you just spit out is just that, NOBODY is going to believe that you actually want to talk about NFL football, your track record in that regard is well.... icky.

And your track on anything is a joke Mr. Paranoia. Enjoy your lone victory in 8 tries. You still won't win a playoff game in our lifetime..

[IckyIPA]

Thanks for the good work or implosion depending if one is watching or participating fellas, havent had this many laughs since ummm, last Sunday. Looking forward to more of the same this coming Sunday.

Icky, come out and play, one thing we can ALL agree on is that sorry EXcuse that you just spit out is just that, NOBODY is going to believe that you actually want to talk about NFL football, your track record in that regard is well.... icky.

And your track on anything is a joke Mr. Paranoia. Enjoy your lone victory in 8 tries. You still won't win a playoff game in our lifetime..

I guess I would look for the rare laugh on another teams site too, if I was a fan of such a failed franchise like the chorfs. Sports poodle can have his one laugh in the last four years at our expense. We know who will be laughing loudest as their 2+ decades of play-off futility grinds on. LOL...All I heard was a TeeHee from FiFi the poodle that squats to pee.

[CSpringsNSD]

Keep wishing, Denver will still win the division, and the chiefs will go another year without a playoff victory to add to their last 22.

[OnlyInUtah]

Pardon the interruption to the Donks self destruction, CARRY ON.

Well....since we're the "Donks" I guess that makes you the Qweefs. Carry on Losing the Division again. At least you imploded the first half of the year instead of the usual 2nd half choke.

[CSpringsNSD]

Anyone else have trouble with their picks this week after last weeks mess

[OnlyInUtah]

Anyone else have trouble with their picks this week after last weeks mess

I am. I'm second guessing most of them...lol.

[Jarhead93]

we are not going to get anywhere so lets agree to disagree that Manning is done I have a Chad Brown interview here that he is in agreement with me Brown ex NFL linebacker also says Manning is injured but he was bad before his injury. https://t.co/qbRsGau6ep This is telling. Just those of us( and I don't want to call anyone out) but those of us who are fans of the Man are taking up for him . We forget that we are fans of the team when our favorite players are at the end of their career. We don't want to give up on them. If an ex pro talks about the end and he's seen the end of one of the greatest in Jerry Rice and compares Manning to Rice. WHY do we hold on?

Omar Bolden has the same injury as Manning yet as a DB and ST player he hasn't skipped a beat. He said "it feels like walking on glass" but he continues to play at a high level https://t.co/61LwjcPFm7 He also said when asked is it a week to week thing, "it should be but he doesn't know he's not in Manning's body. But he doesn't do much changing of direction in his POSITION so it should be easier for him to get back than it was for me." I guess he means get back to 100% because he hasn't missed a game this season has he?

This is why people get annoyed with you, Hop...you imply that those of us who have advocated for Manning to start are doing so only out of misguided emotion or loyalty...as if the only rational opinion is that Manning should have been benched from the start, or at least early in the season...Reasonable people can come to different conclusions; and I would say that prior to this week, MOST nfl experts have begrudgingly sided with sticking with Manning, as they don't know or don't trust Oz...Do you honestly think YOU are the only REAL expert, or the only one thinking rationally?
In fact, I don't know that ANY of us here have said that Manning DESERVES to start...my support for Manning is based SOLELY off of my estimation of the relative probability of a Super Bowl victory with a flawed vet (but one how plays well in spurts when healthy) or an unknown first-year starter (and first-year starters not named Brady don't win fucking Super Bowls). I have said that Oz very well could be a better regular season player, but we aren't playing for regular season victories, Hop. Likewise, Utah has sided with Manning (despite admitting that Manning has played more poorly than well) because he don't think Oz has a future as a starter (he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire when he has played).
But go ahead live in a fantasy world where you are the only one with a valid opinion or argument, I'm sure it's a comforting world to live in.

P.S. Bolden has played 10 defensive snaps this year to go along with 3 special teams tackles, 2 missed tackles, and 2 penalties...interesting standard of evidence

Wow just like that I'm the bad guy. I said I wasn't calling anyone out but you feel I was downing your expertize. Going all girlly on me sorry don't quit because you feel you can't win me over. You're not the first to run away while debating. Now that I've said all that bull I will not take the blame for all those who want me to follow their lead and I don't. The problem with most people like me is I'm an old dog and I've been a fighter all my life not about to become something I'm not to please you or anyone. I respect any man who has the balls to stand his grown. But for you to leave because I Don't agree or because I said something to make you cry is weak. What's the problem Chad Brown agreeing with me? My opinion is just that, yours is yours we're both entitled. But I will stand down and you can have the playground since I'm the one running everyone away. Man up young man when you get older and set in your ways you will see. Have a great life and god bless

== I have had plantar faciitis and it is no joke. It doesn't really matter which foot you plant with to throw it hurts like He** to step down with any real weight much less walk or run. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
What I know 1. First downs win games because you have the ball and the other guy doesn't. What was achingly clear to me is we were not converting on 3rd down PERIOD. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or anything else to see that.
2. Is Peyton done? Yes most likely, Do I want to see him like he played so masterfully 1 last time like against GB? Yes, but I am also a realist. We do need to find out what is under the hood of the wizard of Os.
3. Is Os the answer? Depends what the question was. If the question is where is Dorothy & Toto and Scarecrow, then you know the answer.
IF the question is Does Brock Osweiler have what it takes to lead this team into the playoffs and eventual Super Bowl. I frankly don't know
I think our defense will get us most of the way there. Long term I don't think so.

I hear Colin K might be available for a song

[OnlyInUtah]

Kap might be worth a look. I don't think Oz is the long term answer. I've never been that impressed in real games he's played in. We'll see how he does against the Bears and if the running game does better with him in. Then we'll have a better idea on where this will go from here.

[kicks]

Little dust up in here I see. Biggie, sorry to see you go. We are here if you decide to come back. So many changes since the Fox days. And yes, Icky no problem.

Looking forward to the game this Sunday vs da Bears. And this guy has never been a fair weather fan. I might get upset at them every now and again. But I bleed Orange and Blue and always will.

Go Broncos!!!

[CSpringsNSD]

I think it's funny how many media outlets have already pinned Oz as the starter for the remainder of the season. Just a couple weeks ago he was a huge unknown and not worth the risk to try out. Now he is Denver's savior and Manning will not be able to regain his starting position when he returns from injury. While I think that Oz will do ok, I think it is very premature to give him the keys to the kingdom with less than a half of regular season play under his belt. Also, once Manning is healthy I find it hard to believe that Kubs won't name him the starter immediately, regardless of how well Oz does or does not play with the chance he gets. I'm hoping Oz succeeds and blows us all away. That would be great for this team in the coming years, but there are still many unknowns and a lack of game tape to make any final judgments.

[OnlyInUtah]

That's why I hate the media. They jump on a bandwagon and then jump off just as quick when things go their way. I hope they are right about Oz but I'm not going to mortgage my house betting he's the new savior of Denver quite yet. And I agree with Springs. I think Oz will have to put up pro bowl numbers to keep Kubiak from putting a healthy Manning back in as well.

[OnlyInUtah]

Associated Press article....

Manning will stay back in Denver to continue rehab


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) Peyton Manning is staying back in Denver when the Broncos travel to Chicago this weekend so he can continue getting treatment on a variety of ailments. He has company in DeMarcus Ware, who's staying behind to keep rehabbing his bad back.

''You can go out there and sit in the cold or you can get two extra days of treatment to speed up your recovery,'' Ware said. ''So, that's what we're doing.''

Excused from meetings and practices this week so he could concentrate on getting healthy, Manning made a cameo appearance at Friday's practice and watched Brock Osweiler get ready for his first NFL start.

Manning hasn't made an appearance in the locker room during the media access time since Monday.

''He's doing really good,'' Ware said. ''We're just two guys trying to get better and just keeping each other supported. Because you know how we are. We're very competitive. We want to get out there. We want to play. But you don't want to go out there 80 percent when at 100 percent you're a different guy among all the other players and you can make a bigger impact. You've just got to think about it that way.''

Manning is getting treatment on a variety of ailments, including a torn plantar fascia in his left foot, an aching throwing shoulder and sore ribs, all related to his throwing motion.

Ware hurt his lower back against Oakland last month and missed a game. He aggravated the injury at Indianapolis on Nov. 8 and will miss his second straight game Sunday.

While Ware expressed confidence he'll be back in the lineup for the Broncos' showdown with New England next week, there's no timetable for Manning's return.

Coach Gary Kubiak will re-evaluate his QB situation after this weekend. He said Osweiler had a good week of practice and benefited from some decidedly Chicago-like weather Friday. The Broncos finally got to use their outdoor fields that had been soaked by a blizzard earlier in the week.

''We got some snow, we got some wind,'' Kubiak said.

Notes: WR Emmanuel Sanders (left ankle sprain) was limited Friday and is 50-50 for the game along with DEs Antonio Smith (hip) and Vance Walker (shoulder), neither of whom practiced this week.

[CSpringsNSD]

Colin Kaepernick to IR for the season. If Brock doesn't work out this may be our best bet next season, or Stafford.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/49e ... li=BBnb7Kz

[OnlyInUtah]

Colin Kaepernick to IR for the season. If Brock doesn't work out this may be our best bet next season, or Stafford.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/49e ... li=BBnb7Kz

Stafford is very damaged goods. With our line he'd get killed in one quarter.

[CSpringsNSD]

Colin Kaepernick to IR for the season. If Brock doesn't work out this may be our best bet next season, or Stafford.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/49e ... li=BBnb7Kz

Stafford is very damaged goods. With our line he'd get killed in one quarter.

I agree, just looking at what free agents are available. I doubt we will get to pick low enough in the draft to get anyone better than Oz or a FA we could pick up.

[OnlyInUtah]

Colin Kaepernick to IR for the season. If Brock doesn't work out this may be our best bet next season, or Stafford.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/49e ... li=BBnb7Kz

Stafford is very damaged goods. With our line he'd get killed in one quarter.

I agree, just looking at what free agents are available. I doubt we will get to pick low enough in the draft to get anyone better than Oz or a FA we could pick up.

Yep. We'd have to give up the farm to move up where we could get a potentially really good QB. And that is always a risk as well.